ATD: All Things Divorce
Join Founder of Merel Family Law Jonathan Merel and his guests as they talk through everything from divorce, relationships, legal miscues and pop culture on ATD: All Things Divorce.
ATD: All Things Divorce
Divorce Myths Debunked
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Have you been told that your divorce will inevitably be a battle to the bitter end? Or perhaps someone convinced you that because your name isn't on the house deed, you have no claim to it? These and other persistent misconceptions about divorce can dramatically affect your decisions and outcomes—often for the worse.
In this myth-busting episode, host Jonathan Merel sits down with experienced family law attorneys Brad Kaye and Jaclyn DeSana to demolish the most common divorce myths that lead people astray. Together, they unpack why these misconceptions exist, how they spread through social media, TV portrayals, and well-meaning but misinformed friends, and the real harm they cause to people navigating separation.
The attorneys provide clear, practical explanations about everything from property division ("no name, no claim" is completely false) to custody arrangements (no, mothers don't automatically get preference, and children can't simply choose at age 14). They address the truth about fault in divorce proceedings, clarify what constitutes domestic violence beyond physical abuse, and explain why Google cannot replace professional legal counsel.
Perhaps most valuable is their insight into how believing these myths can derail your divorce process—causing unnecessary delays, inflated costs, and agreements that may prove unenforceable. As Brad Kaye puts it, "The best attorneys pour water on a fire. They don't pour gasoline on it," highlighting how proper legal counsel often prevents litigation rather than encourages it.
Whether you're contemplating divorce, in the middle of proceedings, or supporting someone who is, this episode provides essential clarity that could save you time, money, and emotional distress. Listen now to separate divorce facts from fiction and make decisions based on reality rather than rumor.
Have questions about your specific situation? Reach out to the team at MerelFamilyLaw.com for professional guidance tailored to your circumstances.
Welcome to ATD, the All Things Divorce Podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan Merel. Welcome to the All Things Divorce Podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan Merel. I'm really excited about today's episode because I've got two of my partners, two amazing lawyers, Brad Kaye and Jaclyn DeSana, present in studio with me. We've got a really interesting topic today.
Jonathan Merel:Obviously, when people get divorced, a lot of people have preconceived ideas of how the process is going to go. How are things going to happen? Iived ideas of how the process is going to go. How are things going to happen? I'm the dad, so this is going to happen. I'm the mom, so this is going to happen. This person did this, so that's going to happen.
Jonathan Merel:These are all preconceived ideas that are really, most of them are myths. So we today are going to be the myth busters. Who are you going to call Myth busters? We are here to bust the myths that often find themselves present in the minds of people who are embarking on a divorce. I've got Jackie, who's done a video series on debunking the myths in Family Lie. I got Brad, a very experienced lawyer, who's going to kind of give his take on a lot of these things, and I want to get right into it. We're really going to you know, before we get into the specific myths themselves. Jackie, I want to ask you why do you think these myths and preconceived notions about how things are supposed to go in family law exists? Why do they exist in the first place? Why do these people have these ideas set in their head before they even talk to their lawyer.
Jaclyn DeSana:I mean, I think it comes from a number of different places. There's definitely social media. Particularly a lot of times in these day and age, you get pods on social media of other people who've been divorced, message boards, things like that, where people are circulating experiences from things that happened in other cases that, honestly, who knows whether the person's telling the truth or not as to what happened in their case? I think, to a certain extent, depending on the myth, especially TV. Television, which I think you know any lawyer is going to say TV often paints us as not super accurate on what our job is looking like and then, in general, like, in addition to social media, just general hearsay, other people telling them like this is what it should be, this is you know and I don't. Online sources, yeah, any number of things, I think, lead to these sort of misinformation and really it's like one rumor gets stuck and proliferates.
Jonathan Merel:I think people you know when you're going, when you're about to get a divorce, your marriage is failing. I think it's natural to talk to people who have been through it or friends of yours or family members, and you know, you automatically think that, however things happen in their divorce is exactly how it's going to happen in yours when it's really the opposite.
Jonathan Merel:Every case is different, the facts are different, the people are different, the lawyers are different, the judges are different, so all those things obviously contribute to different outcomes for different. Brad, I want to talk to you next. Obviously, you talk to clients all the time. You're meeting with potential clients all the time who really have no idea about what they're about to embark on and, again, a lot of them have these preconceived ideas. I mean, does that affect your interactions with them? Like, can you talk to people all the time that come in with like these crazy ideas about what's about to happen? What, what do you experience?
Brad Kaye:Yeah, so I, I mean, I say something that I say to a lot of clients in that be careful what you read online, right? And I like to say, if you're going to retain me, I'm going to be your attorney. Google is not going to be your attorney, cause the problem is when people look stuff up just with a simple search, you know, even whatever AI you're using these days, you'll get a lot of information, a lot of it helpful sometimes, but also you'll get stuff that's either outdated for this state or from another state. Right, that's completely different, right, right. So it's just, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And then another thing like you said, I think people talk a lot to their friends or other people that they know who've went through divorce.
Brad Kaye:Obviously, situations are entirely different. That person who's telling you what happened in their divorce might not tell you another factor that happened that led to that. You know, I think, like support groups for people during divorce are great, but I also think people get a lot of misinformation at those as well. Oh for sure, yeah, you're breaking down a lot of misconceptions.
Jonathan Merel:Yeah, especially like the Googling. I mean, everyone wants to solve a problem. We all do it, like when something is hurting us or you have like your throat hurts or this part of your body hurts, you're Googling and we're trying to play doctor, just like they're trying to play lawyer and we really have no idea. Yeah, or just like they're trying to play lawyer and we really have no idea. Yeah.
Jaclyn DeSana:We're not doctors and they're not lawyers. Yeah, and Brad raises a really interesting point with the AI overview that typically you get when you Google, which probably exacerbates this issue because it really is just collecting so much from all over the internet. Yep, exactly.
Jonathan Merel:All right, well, let's get into. We're going to go a breakdown myth by myth and kind of give some commentary and color on everything. The first one we're going to talk about you either have to settle your case or go to trial in your case and there's no in between. That's a myth we obviously want to debunk. What are your thoughts on that?
Jaclyn DeSana:Yeah, and this one, I think, is particularly dangerous and important to debunk. It's one of the reasons it was one of the first ones I wanted to do when I thought of my video series, because there are just so many people who what ends up happening is they waste way too much time trying to talk to their spouse or talk to the other person in advance. That might be being really difficult because, you know, there's, of course, those odd cases where they do get along and they can figure this out, but there's so many where they can't and they're just being met with this abstinence and they're so afraid of litigating and of the entire thing blowing up. And you know what this thought is of like well, I know that if I can't get all this done before I come to you, like basically as soon as I call a lawyer, we're going to trial, we're litigating. Everything is just not the case in family law.
Jonathan Merel:There's so many, you guys know, there's so many tools that we can use to narrow the issues and figure things out short of a trial. That's a great because I think a lot of people equate hiring a lawyer with litigating and fighting, and I talk to people all the time. You often have to say, look, hiring two good lawyers is the best way to prevent litigation. In most cases you have two clients and two lawyers who are reasonable people. Then the chances of you going to a trial in your case are slim to none if everyone's got the right head on their feet, right.
Brad Kaye:I just remember an old judge once said the best attorneys pour water on a fire. They don't pour gasoline on it. Right, so you should be hiring an attorney to get it done right, not necessarily to go in and litigate. There's a time and place for litigation, doesn't mean you have to start super aggressive like that. Yeah.
Jaclyn DeSana:You know, and this one ties into, like the other, myths and misinformation too, because if people have that preconceived notion and they are trying to negotiate without getting decent lawyers involved, you know you have nobody to tell either side when they're being unreasonable or when they're wrong about what might happen, and then that puts the situation where they don't know how to resolve those problems, where the getting lawyers involved actually can have the opposite effect, where we are trying to settle the case and we are throwing water on the fire versus that Get it done right. The first time.
Jonathan Merel:All right, let's go on to the next one. We call this one no name, no claim. This deals with if your name is not on the property, perhaps, or, for example, if your name's not on the title to the house, does that mean you have no claim to the house? Let's talk about why. That's a myth that we need to debunk.
Jaclyn DeSana:Yeah, this one is incredibly common and I find that when I hear this one, it's something that they've often heard from the other spouse, like the other spouse has thrown in their face like well, you're not on the house, da da da.
Jaclyn DeSana:And you know it really is a dangerous thing and people I it. Sometimes people are so scared by it that it takes a long time to calm them down from that fact over the phone. Calm them down from that fact over the phone. But you know it actually has nothing to do with how property is divided, whose name is on things. Everything has to do with when it was purchased.
Jonathan Merel:That's the takeaway here for those listening is there's a presumption that anything that's acquired during the marriage is marital property. So just because you acquire a bank account and only one spouse is on it, or a car and only one spouse's name is on the title, or even a house and only one spouse's name is on the title, as long as it was acquired during the marriage, there's a presumption that it's marital property, regardless of how it's titled, regardless of whose name is on the property. So we hear this a lot. You hit the nail on the head. People just have this general assumption, which I can understand. Yeah, you know, if there's pieces of property that you know are acquired by one person and just put in their name, you know, an uneducated person about the process might think like oh no, this isn't going to be mine. And again, these are the preconceived ideas that people have that, you know, just lead to thoughts that aren't accurate.
Brad Kaye:And I just a quick point. If that's something that would favor you in your divorce, then maybe you should think about a postnuptial agreement where you can break down how the divorce would go in the event it went through right. Because premarital agreements or postnuptial agreements, you can put things in there saying that, hey, if it's marital and divisible, we're going to put both our names on it, if not, whatever's in your name.
Jaclyn DeSana:Yeah, that is an important thing to note, Brad, is that this whole thing changes if you did have the foresight to get a prenuptial agreement or a postnuptial agreement.
Brad Kaye:Right.
Jaclyn DeSana:And I would say postnuptial agreements. If that's actually your intent in getting property that's solely in your name, that you believe it's not going to be divisible, then that's a conversation you have to have with your spouse about some kind of postnuptial agreement. 100% Yep.
Jonathan Merel:All right, we're moving on to the next. This kind of has to deal with the preconceived idea, whether it be because of societal norms or thoughts that are, frankly, pretty outdated, but a lot of people coming in think custody laws simply favor the mother and that, no matter what the mom is, there's a presumption that the mom's going to get the kids majority of the time. And you know, again, this is antiquated thinking, but it still still exists in today's society. Give us some color on that, jackie.
Jaclyn DeSana:Yeah, there's a lot of kind of misinformation out there about how custody laws go and and this is one of them you know what I will say, and I often tell clients when you're dealing with a really, really young child. Sometimes that can still be the case to a certain extent, of course, depending on the party's situation, because it really depends Like was dad involved previously? Did they live together? Did you what was going on? But you know there's so many people who just assume this kind of thing of like, well, if I end up fighting for it, she's going to get them anyways, like what's worth it. And you know it's really not helpful thinking because it every custody case is so different and depends so much on where you live, where you work, what your schedules are, everything you know there are plenty of cases where you know the baby's born and mom goes off to work and dad's home with the kids, or dad's the better caretaker of the kids.
Jonathan Merel:I mean, you know, I understand traditionally that might have been the way things worked Mom and the kids, she stayed home, dad went off to work. But it's it's 2025. That's simply not the case anymore. You got, obviously, role reversal and that you know again, moms are out working in the breadwinner while dad's staying home. You got households where both parties work and there's a nanny involved. So you know to have the preconceived idea that just because you're the dad, you're going to get screwed, or just because you're the mom, you have a leg up on the father when it comes to parenting time and custody. It's just not how it goes. But again, people walk into our offices all the time, as Brad, I'm sure, can allude to and expect this.
Brad Kaye:Yeah, I mean, roles are changing right. Like you said, it's 2025. If you're two equally involved parents, so long as you know maybe your work schedules, and if you guys live a close distance to each other, I mean there's no reason that you both can't be equally involved and maybe even have an equal parenting schedule. It doesn't matter, you know, if you're mom or if you're dad.
Jonathan Merel:Right, and again just getting back to the 50-50 schedule. That's kind of another myth, just to kind of flip it on the flip side, right. Some people also come in and are just expecting that the default is 50-50, when that's not the answer either.
Jaclyn DeSana:Yeah, that's another common one. The myth kind of goes both ways where you know, you either hear from someone like well, I know that the courts aren't going to like me because I'm dad or whatever. Or you hear like I know that you know they're going to get 50, 50. And it really it just depends so much on the on what works for that family.
Jonathan Merel:Exactly, and every situation is different Kids, proximity to residences, ages of the kids, parents, job obligations there's a million different factors that factor in, but it's always the best interest of the children, the best interest of really the family. When it comes to the schedule, what makes sense for everybody, all right, we're moving right along. Next, one fault matters. For example, if you cheated on your spouse, are you going to get less money? The answer is no. A lot of people come in and think well, you know, this is a popularity contest because this person's the bad guy or this person's the bad girl, they're going to suffer when it comes to the financial settlement. And you know why don't you talk about, like Illinois, being a no fault state and what that?
Jaclyn DeSana:really is. Yeah, I mean, this is one that you can really get into trouble with if you go around Googling, because there are states we're talking about Illinois here, right which means that our laws in Illinois say that, no matter that property is divided without consideration of any marital misconduct, right? So you know that's inclusive of any semblance of fault claims that you would have to claim in other states. So, and you know, this can be a really hard pill to swallow for the person who feels like they may have been wronged, right, who feels like they may have been wronged Right, and, you know, feels like, well, you know, I don't want to. Especially, I think it can be a hard pill to swallow for a person who might be the person paying support.
Jonathan Merel:You know, I'll hear a lot like, well, he cheated on me, I really have to pay him maintenance, and it's like, well, yeah, you know, and look, I get why they get pissed and I get why you know they feel they're entitled to more, for example, obviously, when there's infidelity or there's abuse or, you know, drug and alcohol problems. I mean you understand, like obviously, why they think that way and as lawyers we have to explain, like you know. Look, we understand why you think this way. The person caused the divorce or you know has treated you terribly, like naturally you would think there would be some correlation. But I understand the reasoning behind no fault. Otherwise courts would be tied up and trying to figure out who cheated on who and why this person did that or who was mean, who was nice. Courts don't have the time for that, people don't have the money to waste on attorney's fees for that and it's just more economical to do the no fault.
Brad Kaye:I will say there are a couple exceptions that I think help people deal with that. If someone was cheating and they were spending a boatload of money on this person, then that's something we would call dissipation and the money that would be there had they not spent it on their paramour. You know the other side can get credit for that. And then the other thing too is if domestic violence perhaps happened in front of the children, right, or something really horrific happened into the children, then that can impact. You know the potential arrangement for parenting time and things like that.
Brad Kaye:Things like that.
Jonathan Merel:So there can be those indirect impacts on finances or parenting time, but in general, everything else being equal, it's going to be no fault.
Jaclyn DeSana:Yeah, to that end too. I get a lot of questions about like in a similar vein, like about the person who asked for the divorce or started the divorce when it's like well, I didn't want it, can he pay my fees? Can't I get you know, and that's not really. You know, illinois, the no fault goes also hand in hand and it just kind of forming into a more mutual decision once it's kickstarted.
Brad Kaye:Sure, yeah, and in certain religious communities, you know, obviously that can be a little different. They just divorce as far as the state of Illinois is concerned, doesn't yeah?
Jonathan Merel:All right. Next topic Children get to pick who they live with once they reach a certain age. I know we hear this all the time like, oh my, a lot of times you hear the age of 14. Again, people have this general idea. Why is that a myth? Talk to us about that.
Brad Kaye:Yeah, well, my first thing I always tell people so if that was the case, you would stay with the parent who lets you stay up all night and play video games, right, and then our society as a whole would have a bunch of people who flunk out of school during middle school. So, yeah, I mean, that's just not true. I think the older you get, I think your voice becomes a little louder and a little more important. But I know, Jackie and I have spoke about this. I hear it all the time I don't know where this mythical 14th birthday came up that at that time it's up to the kid and the kid's going to come into court and tell the judge and that'll be it. I don't know where that came from and we have to spend a lot of time talking people off that.
Jaclyn DeSana:It really is a really, really prolific rumor and you know it really. It. And where it is because Brad you're right is that the older a child gets, and also that goes along with not only how old the child is but how mature they are and the reasons for their decisions and their opinions, but like, all of that kind of goes along. But there absolutely is no bright line. And you know, I've heard this to the point where I've had clients say they think the other side is dragging out the divorce on purpose until a child hits 14 so that we no longer get to negotiate parenting.
Jonathan Merel:I mean, like that is like that is, I don't know where they get it. I mean, like you said, there's so many different places for information now, whether it be social media or Google or everywhere, where people, you know, just have these ideas in their head and just are basically dead set that this is the law before they even ask a lawyer. Yeah, it's crazy.
Jaclyn DeSana:And you know the bottom line is that, similar to what we talked about with the other rumors in this vein, like this is all so specific to the family, the kid, their maturity, their age, their reasons, because, you know, not only would everybody pick the fun parent, but, or if someone you know is alienating, coaching the kid, they would just get away with it. Every time There'd be no consideration, for you know what's this kid really feeling? How do we mend the relationship if there is something like that going on?
Jonathan Merel:So yeah, I think the takeaway, one of the takeaways here, is not everything is black and white. You know the law accounts for different situations, different people. There are not just these. You know thresholds that you meet and something automatically happens. You know, as a general rule, the laws of Illinois and most states really just account for different situations and, you know, allow the courts to give give the court some flexibility and how they rule depending on each different families.
Jaclyn DeSana:So all right, we're on things like that, and you get these people who will say like well, he's well, he's never hit me, so I don't think we can kick him out of the house, like something to that effect, and it's. It's really untrue in these situations, like you know, obviously, if there's physical abuse, that's a lot more of a rubber stamp when we're talking about getting an order of protection removing someone from a home. But the domestic violence statute in Illinois applies to harassment, which is defined as repeated phone calls, repeated text messages, like basically anything that repeatedly interferes with your ability to live your life in a peaceful way. Interruption of sleep.
Jonathan Merel:Yeah, you don't have to lay a hand on anybody.
Brad Kaye:You still could be committing domestic abuse. Mental abuse is still abuse, exactly, I mean that.
Jonathan Merel:Yeah, I mean I think that one you would think would be more obvious to people. But you know a lot of people think it has to be some physical abuse or physical touching to account for it. But that's definitely not the case and some of the worst forms of abuse are the ones that are not physical. You know people getting tor, tormented, emotionally tormented and, um you know, threatened and just completely controlled.
Jaclyn DeSana:That's as much abuse yep, financial abuse too is another form. Yeah, you know, there's like so much that goes to to boil domestic violence right down to only some kind of physical assault is to really like erase what those relationships actually look like. Right, you know, yeah, right.
Jonathan Merel:All right. Well, now that we've debunked all these myths, let's kind of talk a little more generally about, you know, what are the consequences of people that believe these myths? I mean for one, I I think a lot of these myths actually prevent people from moving forward in certain situations, perhaps you know, enforcing their rights as a victim of domestic violence, or perhaps holding off on divorce because they know certain things are supposedly allegedly happen, when you know it comes to their children or support, or how things get divided. I think having these ideas and again, these are people with these ideas before they talk to a lawyer who knows what they're saying actually, you know, cause behavior, or the lack thereof, which impact these people's lives.
Brad Kaye:Right. I mean I think if you hire an attorney and you come in with unreasonable expectations that aren't what the law is or anything close to it, your divorce is going to take longer and it's going to be more expensive, right, like? You need to know where the bar is set. And then also, sometimes you have people that you know one of the myths is hey, maybe it's going to be more expensive if I hire an attorney, right, let's just do this ourselves. Then they come into your office and they have a crazy judgment that's not enforceable. And maybe they agreed to not have much parenting time because, oh well, the mom was going to get all the time right. I mean, there's nothing worse than trying to fix something that someone put together based off a lot of these myths, when they could have hired the right attorneys and just done it right the first time.
Jaclyn DeSana:And it is so much more expensive to try to fix problems like that than it is to just, you know, handle it in the first place.
Jaclyn DeSana:But you know, to your point too, jonathan, I do think that so many of these, particularly the ones that have to do with the kids, do prolong people from pulling trigger on these scenarios, like I know for one, I've had multiple where the people think like they think they're going to lose the kids if they do divorce, or if they don't want the other person to have 50, 50, or they're scared they don't think they should. They think like, well, if I get a divorce or we separate, like then I'm going to lose the kids half the time, or I'm only going to have every other weekend, and they hold off on, you know, making these moves or trying to figure it out when you, you know, I think this is like I spend so much time on consultations I'm sure you do too, brad like debunking these things like hearing out like what have you heard, what are your questions, and kind of breaking them down and figuring out like a path forward, because you know so much of this too.
Jaclyn DeSana:Like we talked about no name, no claim, or like people think assets are immediately 50 50. Like you've got to talk to somebody. You've got to come and say, like this is the situation, I put this money down, or this person had an affair and they spent the money. You know. You've got to talk to someone and figure out what those rights are there's no shame in it, right?
Brad Kaye:I mean, I've fallen for myths in other industries all the time, in other areas. I mean we're part of a generation that wants an answer now and you know we're either. It started, I think, with Wikipedia. We just we read something. We assume it's fact. We don't even know what the source is right, and I mean sometimes you just need to talk to someone who knows what they're talking about to just tell you the way it really works.
Jaclyn DeSana:So no shame in coming and admitting that it happens to me all the time. There's nothing different than this, than sending yourself down a you know, a WebMD rabbit hole.
Jonathan Merel:We're all doctors.
Brad Kaye:We're doctors alone, not medicine.
Jonathan Merel:Yeah, going in to see the doctor and telling them my diagnosis and they're like what I was going to ask what the main takeaway here is, but I think you've both hit on it, and I mean the takeaway is don't assume the internet is right. Don't assume your sources, such as social media or friends and family. Consultant attorney who knows what they're talking about. Obviously, getting information from a lawyer is crucial to beginning the process while you're during the process and, like you both said, don't be scared to ask questions and you know what you assume might be the answer might not be. So I think talking to lawyers is the key takeaway here. Getting the right advice from professionals and experts in the field is how you're going to get, obviously, these myths debunked and get to the truth.
Jaclyn DeSana:Yeah, absolutely. And I'd add to that not you know, have your questions organized, but also the more information you give us and the more questions you ask, the more we can actually steer in the direction of how your case should go, what arguments you can make for the things that matter to you.
Brad Kaye:Right, it's better to give too much information than not enough, and then we get surprised by something later on. In your case, information than not enough and then we get surprised by something later on in your case. Absolutely. Usually it's a little tougher to handle then.
Jonathan Merel:All right. Well, that pretty much wraps this up, and that is not a myth. That is the truth. We're wrapping this up. I want to thank Brad. I want to thank Jackie for being here. You can reach us at MerelFamilyLaw. com. You can find both of them on social media, linkedin, all over the place. We're here to answer your questions. If you have more, feel free to reach out, and we look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Thank you, guys.
Jaclyn DeSana:Thanks, thank you, we'll see you next time.
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