ATD: All Things Divorce
Join Founder of Merel Family Law Jonathan Merel and his guests as they talk through everything from divorce, relationships, legal miscues and pop culture on ATD: All Things Divorce.
ATD: All Things Divorce
Divorce on Screen: Hollywood's Influence on Modern Breakups
Divorce stories dominate our screens, social media feeds, and cultural conversations—but why are we so captivated by celebrities splitting up or fictional marriages falling apart? In this fascinating exploration of divorce in pop culture, host Jonathan Merel welcomes attorney Mitchell Dean, a self-proclaimed pop culture expert, to dissect how Hollywood shapes our understanding of marriage dissolution.
Mitchell brings a unique perspective as both a practicing family law attorney and a pop culture enthusiast who's tracked celebrity breakups and divorce-themed entertainment for years. Together, they unpack the evolution of divorce portrayals across generations of film and television—from the groundbreaking drama of "Kramer vs. Kramer" to the comedic chaos of "War of the Roses" to the raw emotional honesty of Netflix's "Marriage Story."
The conversation delves into why celebrity divorces like Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie's generate endless headlines while actual world events struggle for attention. Mitchell offers intriguing insights into how these high-profile separations might influence everyday people considering divorce: "Divorce is becoming a much more comfortable thing for people to do, a much more liberating thing... whereas in the past, traditionally, you had to stick it out."
Perhaps most valuable is the reality check Mitchell provides about Hollywood versus actual divorce proceedings. While movies showcase dramatic courtroom confrontations, he explains how good attorneys work to "bring down the temperature" and find practical solutions. The episode explores how clients often arrive expecting "World War III" after consuming media portrayals that emphasize conflict over collaboration.
Whether you're fascinated by pop culture, considering your own relationship options, or simply curious about how entertainment shapes our perceptions, this episode offers thought-provoking perspectives on why divorce stories continue to captivate our collective imagination.
Subscribe, rate, and share your thoughts about the show! Join us next episode when we welcome Christina Lindsay, our in-house divorce coach, for another compelling conversation about navigating relationship transitions.
Welcome to ATD, the All Things Divorce Podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan Merel. Welcome listeners. This is ATD, the All Things Divorce podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan Merel. We have a special guest today, Mitchell Dean, one of our rock star lawyers here. He's been a practicing lawyer here for three years. He's been at the firm six years, you include his time as a law clerk. We're excited to have him. The topic today is pop culture and divorce divorce in the news. Mitch is our infirm in-house expert when it comes to pop culture in general, but I'm excited to have him. Welcome to the show, mitch. Thank you for having me, jonathan. So tell us a little bit about your background, mitch. How did you get here to where you are today? Tell us how your love of pop culture came. Give us, tell the world who is Mitchell Dean.
Mitchell Dean:So you know, I grew up in a small town maybe 90 minutes south of here and I ended up moving to Iowa, went to undergrad at the University of Iowa and then, after I graduated from there, I went to DePaul Law School and moved to the big city of Chicago. You know, I never thought I would like the big city. Yet here I am and it's kind of like blown up. Since then, especially working here, got into family law At the same time. I've always had an interest in pop culture, whether it was music, movies. Fortunately, a lot of the attorneys here at the office we share the same interests, so that's always been great, I don't know. I think my pop culture interest has been there since day one, when I was four years old I was listening to the Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears and I've just been riding the pop culture wave ever since.
Jonathan Merel:There's not too many people who are better at karaoke than Mitch too. I know that from experience at our firm outings. This guy, if there's a microphone nearby and there is actually this guy, will get on it and he'll start screaming the words to every song that comes on. I don't know how you know every song, you know every movie. Is that just because there wasn't a lot to do 90 miles south of here in Iowa? So you just A?
Mitchell Dean:little bit of that. I think there was nothing to do and I had to entertain myself. You know, back home we have a lot of local bands. I think my biggest disappointment is I don't really know anyone else who's musically talented to put together my own band, so I'll just take a microphone, play the music and there we go.
Jonathan Merel:All right, I like that. I like that. Well, it's amazing because you would think someone growing up in small towns not exposed to the big city, they'd be a little timid or shy. Mitch is actually the opposite. That's what I actually love about him, not just as a person, but as an attorney. He's a go-getter, he's aggressive. He's never just going to sit back and wait for things to happen. He brings the fight to the table. He fights for our clients and that's why they love him. That's why he's excelled so much as a young lawyer and we're lucky to have him here. So thank you for that, mitchell. Let's get into our show. I'm just going to be asking Mitch, our expert, about questions that'll bring us into discussions about topics related to divorce in pop culture. So, without further ado, let's start. Question one what are some of the most memorable divorces in pop culture and why do they stick with us? Give us some examples.
Mitchell Dean:I think there's two aspects here that I want to talk about. I think the first is Hollywood and celebrities, and then the other, of course, the things that we see every day. We see on the big screen, so there's some movies. This question. It kind of reminds me of when somebody asked, why did you want to be a divorce attorney? And I would tell them well, it was drama.
Jonathan Merel:That is true. That is what we're getting. That keeps us going.
Mitchell Dean:A lot of celebrity divorces On top of that. That's tied into their publicity. Everywhere in the country loves Hollywood. I mean, it's always been that way since the beginning of the 20th century. You know, recently we've had Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. Yes, we had the Johnny Depp. You know, recently we've had Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie huge breakup. We had the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard whole situation which became very publicized. We even had which is not a breakup, but don't forget the Beyonce a theme, maybe you can call it that they're going to tie into their work.
Jonathan Merel:Yeah, and I think Hollywood eats it I mean the culture, pop culture, society eats it up to the point where these personal experiences of celebrities become like mainstream news, when, if you think about it in the big picture, who really gives a shit about someone's divorce? At the end of the day, they're normal people, but these kind of stories take headlines away from like war-torn countries and real you know politics and real issues. It's crazy because obviously ratings are what drive these things and people thrive when they hear about people's divorces.
Mitchell Dean:When it comes to celebrities, and I think that kind of ties it to the whole Hollywood aspect and the relatability of it. A lot of movies we are seeing our life on screen, especially when it comes to movies about divorce, like Marriage Story that came out several years ago.
Jonathan Merel:It was on Netflix which.
Mitchell Dean:Almost everyone has access to Netflix. That was a very honest portrayal of a divorce.
Jonathan Merel:Yeah, that was kind of like a real-life portrayal, not the kind of Hollywood divorce movie which obviously let's get to a couple of those. I mean, there's some great movies about divorce that I'm sure everyone listening to this remembers. No matter, obviously there's some of my generation which is older than Mitch and some of Mitch's generation. But talk to us about some of your favorite divorce movies, I think the first one that comes to mind Kramer v Kramer. That's an old one.
Mitchell Dean:With Meryl Streep back in the 80s and in the 80s and, of course, meryl Streep had been nominated for over 20 Oscars. I think that was one of the first ones that really gave an honest portrayal of a divorce. I think another one that I like to talk about and we're going to talk about later the Parent Trap, the famous splitting up of the kids. My generation would have been the Lindsay Lohan version. Maybe your generation was the Hayley Mills version.
Jonathan Merel:I'm not that old.
Jonathan Merel:But, yeah, I mean you've got movies that you know have the serious portrayal. Then you have some that are like the extreme. What's the word I'm looking for? I mean it's just like divorce on steroids. It kind of puts like the humor. When I think of that, I'm thinking War of thinking, war of the roses. I mean it's the most ridiculous, crazy movie with people going through a divorce, people hanging from chandeliers, fighting over everything, wanting to kill each other. Now, look, we've seen as divorce lawyers, we've seen close to that in reality, but that is as Hollywood-ified of it as it can get of a divorce. But that would that's a. I mean, I'd say half people. If they're asked what's the most famous divorce movie, would say that, um, and it's a great movie. You've got Danny DeVito as the divorce lawyer. Um, what's his name? Michael Keaton, not Michael Keaton. Um, who's the guy from the Godfather? No, no, not Michael Keaton, not Michael Keaton. Who's the guy From the Godfather?
Mitchell Dean:No.
Jonathan Merel:Not Michael Keaton, michael Douglas, michael Douglas I forgot the actress's name, I should know. Anyways, that was an amazing movie of divorce, just I mean making it crazy. And I think back then and this is something we can get into more divorce was more of like a taboo thing back then, like it was kind of a touchy subject, it wasn't as mainstream, it was kind of more shamed and frowned upon back then. As it is, compared to how it is today, where today it's more of like a liberating thing instead of like a sad thing In some of these movies it's not just a drama, you know.
Mitchell Dean:There's crazy stupid love, this romantic comedy. Even the Parent Trap Right and they ended up getting back together in the end the Parents. So, yes, there's very hardcore divorce movies, but Hollywood at the same time can make it somewhat charming. Yeah, because more and more people do talk about divorce, do get divorced, have custody issues, right.
Jonathan Merel:So you've got yeah, you've obviously got the serious movies. You've got, like, the highly dramatic ones which aren't realistic. Then you even have the comedic ones, like I don't know if you remember the movie the Money Pit with Tom Hanks. That was a hilarious portrayal of divorce. They buy this big house, they fix it up and then they realize you're getting divorced and one person is living on one side, the other's living on the other, and it's just a complete mess and everything starts falling apart. I mean it's hilarious. So again, divorce is obviously a topic that Hollywood's touched on for a while in a variety of different ways. But let's move on to the next question. If you could give some legal advice to any of the characters in these movies, what would it be?
Mitchell Dean:I think the first one would be in Marriage Story, and you see this all the time the parties want to amicably agree they're going to forego attorneys. And it's just unfortunate because in this movie it didn't work out for Adam Driver and all of a sudden he was behind the eight ball and the characters they eventually moved. One was in California, one was in New York. He didn't have a lawyer right away so he struggled to see his kid. We see that often in custody battles, where if you're behind the eight ball and you're not going to hire an attorney and you're not going to take this as serious as you should, you could potentially be like Adam Driver and your relationship with your child could be impaired, at least parenting time-wise.
Jonathan Merel:For sure, for sure Any other advice you'd give.
Mitchell Dean:I mean, I think, the biggest one parent trap. I would never advise a client let's split up our two twins, and then you guys can move across the pond from each other. Yeah, that's not advisable, that's not in your kid's best interest. It just seems insane. But that may be a little bit of that Hollywood comedic touch.
Jonathan Merel:Well, how accurate do you think? I mean, of course, different movies portray divorce in different ways, but how accurate do you think these portrayals of divorce are? I mean, some things I think they get it right. Some things are a little bit, you know, given that Hollywood effect. What do you think?
Mitchell Dean:Well, I mean, it's Hollywood. They're trying to get drama. We talked about drama comedies. There's different kinds. You know some movies are accurate drama comedies. There's different kinds. Some movies are accurate. Some are more memorable recently because they're accurate, like Marriage Story, kramer vs Kramer not recent, but again that was a big one that really hit home when it comes to how real a divorce is and the impact. I don't think a movie like the Parent Trap is accurate at all. I don't think there's much to learn from that. But again, I think an audience knows that going into the movie, that they're watching a rom-com. Meanwhile they get a movie like Marriage Story, a high-profile directors and actors and it's nominated for awards. The drama they're coming into that movie and they're expecting a hardcore drama with some great performances.
Jonathan Merel:Yeah, I mean they have to make the topic appealing to mass audiences. So I get it. I mean they're not going to start highlighting, like, the mundane, boring parts of divorce law and there are some. Not everything we do is all about, you know, fun and games and craziness and sadness. I mean there is the mundane paperwork and reviewing documents and you know the nuts and bolts of a divorce case obviously are not necessarily going to be betrayed. They want the spicy stuff, the stuff that's going to sell. And while we encounter that a lot, of course, much of divorces, many divorces are not like that. They're just going through the motions and families trying to get to that next chapter. But I mean, of course, hollywood's going to do a great job of spicing things up. They're just going through the motions and families trying to get to that next chapter. But I mean, of course Hollywood's going to do a great job of spicing things up. And that kind of brings us to the next one.
Jonathan Merel:Speaking of Hollywood, we all hear about celebrity divorces. I know we touched on this earlier. You hear about Brad and Angelina, kanye West and Kim Kardashian, ben and Jennifer and all these things. I mean. I mean they have like lives of their own, and obviously tabloids and websites and Instagram accounts and TV shows thrive on this kind of stuff. I guess you know what. Do you think the impact of this is on their careers alone? Like, do they secretly like this? I mean, we hear the fact that you hear that saying, like, there's no such thing as bad publicity and these, whether they like it or not or whether you know, some people think these things could have been even planned. As crazy as that sound, it's definitely brought the spotlight on these people and probably, you know, pole vaulted them into other stratospheres because of this divorce they've gone through.
Mitchell Dean:I think we could definitely go down the rabbit hole of specific celebrities who, we probably both agree, do this for the publicity. On the flip side, you have others who are very private and you know, if you remember, there was one time in Hollywood where a lot of the laws being passed were about taking pictures of children. But I think it's different for each celebrity. I could tell you I don't know Kim Kardashian, I don't know Angelina Jolie, but I have a feeling Angelina Jolie is a bit more private than Kim Kardashian, based on what we know about their families. So I think it just depends how that specific celebrity may want to take advantage of the situation or they may not. Right?
Jonathan Merel:I guess it depends, like you said. But I mean there are divorces in Hollywood that get done quickly and you think it's going to be the most drawn out, horrible divorce. And then you hear on the news that a settlement was reached. And then you know you got people like Brad and Angelina Jolie whose custody battle I think is maybe just wrapped up and went on for like seven, eight years, which is insanity. I mean we don't see seven or eight year long custody battles rarely. Maybe a divorce if there's really complex financial issues, but I mean a custody battle going seven, eight years is crazy.
Jonathan Merel:And then I mean I just can't believe how they could let that go on. Knowing they're in the spotlight, knowing their children are in the middle of this, all these children that they have. That to me seems unfathomable as a parent. How that could ever happen. Like how you could think the other spouse is that bad or there's that much hatred that you can't think of the best interest of your kids. I can't fathom. But at the same time I don't know who knows what they're thinking. Maybe she's private, maybe she's thinking great the more times we're in the news. Even if it is at the sake of my children, it can't hurt, right.
Mitchell Dean:And let's not forget that this wasn't Brad Pitt's first rodeo he was involved with Jennifer Aniston as well, so I mean he could very well be someone that I would equate with the Kardashians, who are doing this for some attention.
Jonathan Merel:Yeah exactly so obviously, celebrity divorces they're everywhere. We hear about them and I think people, even though they're not celebrities, regular everyday people probably think about situations like that when they start to question their own relationships, their own marriages. How do you think pop culture you know how they pop culture and Hollywood, celebrity divorces. How does that, do you think that, influences people when it comes to their own marriages and their own divorce cases? What do you think about it?
Mitchell Dean:Well, I think that at the end of the day, the parties think that at least when they file that this is going to be damaging. We're going to come out very aggressive. We're going to take every cent that this person has. We're going to drag them through the mud. They're very eager to fight. We see that as well, and we're not representing Brad and Angelina. But I think you got to take that mindset and you have to compare it to laws and manage your client's expectations. It's important to discuss those expectations, let them know what they're entitled to, because you're not going to come out and a judge is not going to be happy if you're going to take advantage of this case to sling your spouse through the mud and maybe beef up your TikTok profile or your blog or whatever.
Jonathan Merel:That's a great point Because I think, like you said, when we sit down with clients for the first time, they are geared up for battle, like they're coming in expecting World War III. They don't even think the possibility of discussing settlement is even possible, an option. And when we talk to them, sure, if there are cases where custody cases need to go, the whole nine yards end with a custody trial, and there are cases, obviously, where you have very bad people on one side or both sides. But I think it's our job as lawyers to try to bring down the temperature. And look, there are many of our colleagues out there who do the opposite. You could have people coming in calm and the next thing you know they're ramping them up and turning this into World War III.
Jonathan Merel:I think a good lawyer's responsibility is to bring the temperature down if possible, kind of rein the client in, understand, explain to the client what their expectations should be, how the law works, like you said. So good lawyers should do that. Again, if there are situations of abuse, drug use, alcoholism then we got to act and we got to do what we need to do. But we also need to bring clients down to earth sometimes and realize that, look, the harm will be done if this drags out for years. Your kids are brought in the middle of this. They got to choose, they got to talk to people, they're scared and then, ultimately, you're putting the family's outcome in the hands of a stranger Right.
Mitchell Dean:You said putting the kids in the middle. I think once parties get through the first several months of their divorce and they start to actually realize the impact that this case is having, they usually get it and they start to sit down and have a discussion about what do we actually need to do to get this going?
Jonathan Merel:And another thing they don't think about is the financial impact. I mean even people who have lots of money a little money it adds up very quickly when you start fighting about kids and you get experts involved and GALs and evaluations, you're talking tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. And you know fighting sounds great to these people until they get their bills and they're like holy shit, this is going to be really expensive and hopefully both sides' cooler heads prevail and they realize, hey, this is stupid. Why would we give all our money to other people like lawyers, instead of saving it for ourselves and our family? So let's see Another topic I wanted to bring up.
Jonathan Merel:I mean, since there and I think I touched on this a little before years and years ago, like when I was growing up as a kid, I didn't know a ton of people whose parents were getting divorced.
Jonathan Merel:I think it was less prevalent and, like you knew the kids whose parents were getting divorced and you know this conception of the modern family hadn't really kind of come up yet. But you know now that we have celebrity divorces in the news so much and divorce seems to be more prevalent. It just seems like maybe the celebrity divorces make, along with the fact that it's more prevalent, just make the idea of divorce less of a taboo thing. I mean, hearing someone's parents are divorced or someone's getting a divorce today just doesn't have like the same impact that it did years ago, and I just think divorce is becoming a much more comfortable thing for people to do, a much more liberating thing for people to do, whereas in the past, traditionally, you know, you had to stick it out, stay with the kids, don't, you know, disrupt the family. If you get divorced you're going to hell or everything's going to go. Now I think it's more of an acceptable thing in society and I think the celebrity divorces in the news you know further that point.
Mitchell Dean:I think there's a lot that goes into it. I think the first thing is how we're actually consuming our pop culture and celebrity news. It's much easier to find out about Angelina and Brad's drama over Twitter compared to maybe when Brad Pitt separated from Jennifer Aniston and you had to go buy People's Magazine or something Right.
Mitchell Dean:On top of that, you know they got movies coming out on Netflix and Amazon Like. These are easily accessible movies, right, you just pop them on, watch it and all of a sudden you know divorce, custody, whatever is kind of at the forefront of your mind, instead of maybe every time you're at the checkout aisle at the grocery store.
Jonathan Merel:Yes, I agree. I agree. It's just social media is a huge part of it, because it's just so easy to get that information, whether you're scrolling, whether you're looking for it, the internet in general. All that stuff didn't exist and I think all these things give people more of the boost that they need to leave a shitty marriage, to get out of a bad relationship, whereas before they didn't have this media and resources.
Mitchell Dean:Social media is good or bad. You get a lot of filth thrown around on social media. You get a lot of news thrown around on social media. For sure.
Jonathan Merel:Well, while we're talking about Hollywood, let's talk about the legal field in movies. It doesn't necessarily have to be divorce. What's your favorite legal moment in TV or movies?
Mitchell Dean:So I like this question. It's not a movie from anything with a divorce. My Cousin, vinny, I think, was the first real legal movie.
Jonathan Merel:Classic.
Mitchell Dean:Joe Pesci, marisa Tomei. I think there's a lot of examples in that movie, but the one that's always struck with me and it's one of the less comedic parts is finally at the end, when Joe Pesci wins and he puts the old lady on the stand. She's got the thick glasses. He puts Marissa Tomei, his fiancee, on the stand. Who's pissed at him? But she's a car expert, which, by the way, you do not call your fiancee as an expert in a trial.
Jonathan Merel:Not realistic, but it works.
Mitchell Dean:It works for the movie. After all of this you're kind of like, wow, he really put that together in this horrible suit because his other one was run over in the mud and he wins this case his first case, and you know I saw that so young. It's a comedic movie but at the same time Joe Pesci's on screen kicking ass and that kind of sticks with you.
Jonathan Merel:It's a feel-good story. It's a hilarious movie. It's a feel-good movie. The result's amazing. It's hilarious. I love that. When I think legal stuff in films, I always think of A Few Good Men, and when Tom Cruise is cross-examining Colonel Jessup, Jack Nicholson and you can't handle the truth.
Jonathan Merel:That's one of the most iconic legal scenes, I think, in Hollywood. And then just going back to law school, do you ever hear the movie the Paper Chase? The Paper Chase is like a movie about A kid who's going to law school At Harvard Law School and it's just about the law school experience and the Socratic method and this horrible professor, professor Kingsfield, who's just like the most intense, scary professor ever. I don't know. My dad made me watch that before my first day of law school. It kind of scared the shit out of me, but it's a classic movie Again, more of just like the legal profession, courtroom scenes, law school Hollywood, I feel like, just eats that up. I mean, there's so many different movies you could point to with court scenes and just stuff involving the law that I think it's great.
Mitchell Dean:You brought up Socratic method and you know totally different generations. My first thought is Legally Blonde when Reese Witherspoon raised her hand, Exactly another one. And she's basically using this opportunity to you know, engage in this battle with this woman that took who she thought she was going to marry. But here we are at Harvard Law School and it's comedy, but Reese Witherspoon was kicking ass as a lawyer.
Jonathan Merel:There's so many great movies I mean the Firm, that's a great movie Again just talking about the law and workings of a law firm and crime and all that. But we could go on forever about this, Trying to think if there's anything else. I think that kind of wraps up most of our discussion about this. But just so you know, Mitch, I know you love him already. This is not the last you're going to see of him.
Jonathan Merel:Mitch is going to be joining us to pop in when there's divorce in the news, divorce in pop culture, big things happening. Even though he might not be featured on the whole episode, we're going to have him in to pop in, do a quick segment, talk about updates in the news and the law when it comes to divorce and Hollywood and pop culture, all that stuff. So, Mitch, we are thrilled to have you here. I mean, I think the key takeaways here is you know there's a ton of intersection between Hollywood, pop culture, divorce. We see it more and more these days and I think it will will keep to be. We'll keep seeing it more and more and obviously it gets ratings. I mean they wouldn't be hearing about this stuff if it didn't bring ratings and cause people to talk about it, don't you agree? I feel like it's.
Mitchell Dean:It's here to stay and we'll probably hear more Ratings, awards 2025, subscribers I mean all of that stuff. That is what the people seem to be wanting when it comes to movies, and they're going to keep making them. They want the drama.
Jonathan Merel:We like the drama. That's why we do this job for a living. People ask why did you do this? I couldn't do transactional stuff. I don't know about you, I would be asleep.
Mitchell Dean:Too much paperwork.
Jonathan Merel:And we get to help people Forget the drama. I mean, the drama is, of course, a part of any divorce case, for the most part, but we get to help people out of shitty situations. We get to help people that are married to bad people. We get to help children that are stuck in terrible households and move them on to the next step of their lives. So that's the fulfilling part of our job. Do you agree? Totally? Um, all right. Well, this is the rest. That's it for this episode. Next week, well, next episode, I'm sorry. Next episode we're going to have our divorce coach, our in-house divorce coach, christina Lindsay. You guys are going to love her. She's the best. We are breaking down barriers when it comes to having an in-house divorce coach. I don't know of any other family law firm in the world that has it. She's been a godsend to the lawyers in this firm, to the clients in this firm, and the world needs to know her more, and that's what we're going to do on the next episode. So thank you for joining us.
Jonathan Merel:You can find us on all the podcast channels Apple, spotify. What else am I missing? Where else can you find podcasts? Apple, spotify, amazon, amazon, wherever ATD Podcast, if you like what you had to hear, we want to hear your feedback. If we sucked, let us know. If we were great, let us know. If we were okay, let us know. Rate us. Comment on us. Hashtag ATD Podcast. I'm your host, jonathan Merel. My guest, mitch Dean. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next time.
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